For people buying new cars, yeah I guess I understand that being true. America prefers SUVs, but it's an interesting statistic.
The Corolla is purchased by those who want an affordable sedan, as well as the affluent who don't want the unreliability of a German luxury car or a Tesla and are putting their money in other things like their home and marketable securities.
The Ford F-150 is a vehicle used widely by commercial organizations as well as American retail consumers who can afford one.
All of this leads me to think if you want to know what popular vehicle sales really are, I suspect you have to look at the used car market and normalize by model, removing years or generations to understand what the average consumer is really buying.
> don't want the unreliability of a German luxury car or a Tesla
I truly beg you to talk to an actual Tesla owner to refine your opinions.
EVs are practically 0-maintenance machines. Unless you need to change your tires... you just don't think about oil changes or motor belts breaking or engine filters clogging and all the other nonsense that breaks in an ICE car.
If you hate Tesla that's a completely valid opinion, but don't pretend that people are buying Teslas just to spite themselves... the user experience is, for the vast majority of people, simply great.
> I truly beg you to talk to an actual Tesla owner to refine your opinions.
Hi! I'm an actual Tesla owner. My Model X is approaching 3 years old.
It is the worst car I have ever owned. Almost everything that can break on it, has broken. I would care much less if Tesla would actually try to fix it when you take it in for service (as mine has been for a total of weeks), instead they lie and say things like "that's normal" when it clearly isn't.
I hate the car, I hate the service experience, and now, for a fun bonus extra, I hate Elon.
What are you getting next? I’m looking for a large electric SUV/van/truck to complement my model Y (wife keeps taking it instead of using her own car) but the only ones I like are Teslas and Rivians.
- "Tesla was both the least reliable but most popular EV brand in a survey of owners that found one in three of all EVs had major issues in the past year" [1]
- "Electric vehicles are less reliable than gas cars, according to a survey of UK drivers." [1]
- "Kia was the most reliable EV maker in the study, while Tesla was the least reliable." [1]
- "Consumer Reports Still Ranks Tesla Reliability 27th Out Of 28" [2]
- "The Model Y still has body hardware issues with the tailgate and door alignment, paint defects, and multiple other problems." [2]
This is one of those things where it's quite clear to me there's news and there's immutable fact. My friends have Teslas and they have never brought it into the shop. Everyone I know with one says they don't trust FSD entirely but love the car and use AP all the time.
It's like the iPhone. When it was released to years afterwards, enthusiasts breathlessly posted about how it was nothing like the Nokia whatever or the Windows Mobile whatever.
They posted about the factories and who was first and established companies and articles about how the iPhone had no copy and paste or this or that.
Meanwhile, the iPhone surged ahead. Everyone I knew who had one raved. It was apparent that the enthusiasts were blindsided. People without an opinion were buying this device. It was going to rule!
Same with Teslas. Rave reviews from my network of early buyers of their non-sports-car. Online all sorts of warnings and complaints. Years later, rave reviews from my friends. Turns out it works out. People online can find 400 sources for their stuff. The factories are in tents. There are gaps in the panels. FSD isn't fully self driving.
But people love it. And now we find ourselves at immutable fact: best selling car in the world.
Can confirm that it’s an iPad on wheels. I love my old suv, really great car but the Model Y is like getting off a horse and into a space ship.
There are features on this car that should be standard on every car in the planet, and one thing Tesla will accomplish over the next few years is force car manufacturers to implement those features. And not nickel and dime you for premium audio in two trims out of 12 and list 160 features on an about this car page. It’s bananas. Anyone that’s ever bought a Tesla will never step a foot into a dealership to be talked down by some kid about how they need to check with the manager about the price of a some mid fit bs suv, while trying to sell you a tire warranty.
I am not sure to understand this dissonance... I owned a model 3 since April 2019, and also I had zero issue. The only time I went to the Tesla center it was to receive the car.
It is so nice to not have to see a car dealer or gas station since April 2019. There is no way I could go back to another car. Even an EV, most of them are ICE cars with electric powertrain, with way too many buttons or dials, and no integration. The iPhone comparison is pretty good. You have to experience it to realize the gap. The software/hardware integration makes the difference, but you have to experience it to fully appreciate it.
Meanwhile, a coworker got a Model S and after 2 service visits ended up having to change his entire wiring harness. On a vehicle with less than 100 miles.
Okay then, our anecdotes then explain this dissonance.
I can understand that someone who had to bring twice his car feels like it is unreliable, and someone who never had to visit once nor feels like it is the most reliable car.
It’s true. Luxury cars using brand new technology are less reliable that cheap and simple cars with old fashioned technologies.
The first Tesla model S were particularly not very reliable. Lot of equipments, new vertical integration from Tesla on many parts, unreliable premium technology such as air suspension…
The model 3 and y are a bit better. The electric (not hybrid) BMW i3 from the same period has been one of the most reliable BMW, a more experienced brand with ICE cars having similar equipment.
If you wanted reliability in 2013, a base Dacia was probably a better choice.
I've a 20 year old BMW that's never given me any grief with the air suspension. Air suspension is not new technology and it wasn't new when my car was built.
Well, I have a relative that bought an x5 used. The vehicle was about 10 years old at the time and in good condition. In the precessing months the airbags fail(both rear I think).
He lives in a country where parts are easy to come by for BMW's it's a mostly Japanese car market there.
I had to ship him the airbags. He sold the thing right after installing them.
I expected the airbags to be more expensive though.
Depending on the climate you'll start to see steel (coil and leaf) springs start to rust away by ten years. Meanwhile the Tesla S was introduced in 2012 which puts the majority of the problems in cars younger than your relative's X5.
The previous owner replaced the air bags (springs) on my car so I couldn't say if they actually failed or if he did as part of a refresh when he lowered the car. They're not super expensive, but the aftermarket ones are that much cheaper. Of course the X5 (especially the first generation) is one of the least reliable vehicles BMW's brought to market. It's the electronics and pump that get real pricey, but on the E39 they pretty much never fail.
In twenty years the air bags (and potentially the pump side fittings) have been replaced once. That's about on par with a conventional coil spring suspension and pretty typical for an E39. Coil springs sag, rust, and break over time (especially in areas where the roads are salted). If Tesla can't make a reliable air suspension that seems more like a Tesla problem.
Aside from Tesla=good, BMW=bad, how do you figure? Replacing a spring, whether steel or air, is normal for older cars especially those that come from harsh environments. My car in particular was older than any Tesla S is today when the air bags were replaced. The pump and electronics are still original.
Any Tesla that's had problems with its air suspension got a shorter service life than I (and plenty of other E39 owners) did. Besides Tesla's struggles with their conventional suspension components are well documented in a series of non-OTA recalls.
I have a hard time to believe those articles, from my anecdotal experience of owning a model 3 since April 2019, I had zero (0) issue, no recall, no oil change, nothing. Feels like cheating. I did change a tire (well 2 because they come in pairs) because I drove on a piece of metal poking one tire. Nothing due to Tesla.
I do not even brake, so those brake pads would last a very long time...
You really have to try it, it is quite impressive.
> EVs are practically 0-maintenance machines. Unless you need to change your tires... you just don't think about oil changes or motor belts breaking or engine filters clogging and all the other nonsense that breaks in an ICE car.
Until your AC fails in your s/x outside of warranty, or you get unlucky enough to have your Y's heat pump fall apart like thousands of people in cold climates have over the last few years. Both repairs are $5000+ and seem to happen much faster than similar issues in conventional vehicles with belt driven AC compressors.
FWIW I've been driving German cars my whole life and never had one break. Never had to think about motor belts or engine filters - just visit a garage for planned maintenance every year or whatever miles the manual states.
Tesla are an amazing company, that made EVs mainstream, but I'm never going to buy one. They don't know what the word "privacy" means.
Counter point, I drove a new German car and had the turbo blow up (this was an "economy" car) within 4,000 miles. I still loved that car, but ICE engines have an order of magnitude more points of failure.
I had my first two engines on my current car (2007, current engine 2013) replaced before finally having a reliable car (manufacturer paid for both replacements after noting there were defects and not anything I had done).
some times stuff is just borked up until a certain point and some of us get unlucky with the quicker to die versions.
sucks, but we need to look at the averages, not the outliers.
* editing to add that I would still recommend my car make and model, because it's just so damned awesome, but I would hate for others to go through what I went through.
This thought just came to me, but industrial electric motors have been around a loooong time.
I think the growing pains we are seeing is that new companies are trying to build cars, and don’t have the experience of traditional automakers.
There’s a heck of a lot of institutional knowledge that goes into integrating all the components of a car. The newcomers have simplified a lot of it, but are definitely hitting some of the stumbling blocks of old.
I think it is the goal for all EV companies.
But for instance some had some mechanical issues that required recalls.
And since most car manufacturers used 3rd party parts (Bosch, etc.) they cannot guarantee that there would be no recall (e.g. airbags, etc.).
But so far my model 3 (April 2019) did not get a single recall. And during those 4 years I did not have to change anything but a flat tire. It is a peace of mind to know that there are so fewer ways to break the car, than with a ICE.
That's not what an Oxford comma is, FYI. I think GGPs interpretation is grammatically correct but I agree that the phrasing is ambiguous. But given Tesla's documented unreliability one can assume what they meant...
A relative of mine has owned a Tesla for about three years which has spent more time inoperable than all of the ice cars I have owned combined. Teslas break in all sorts of ways and it can take months to get parts.
Maybe EVs will be longer lasting and lower maintenence on average in the long run, but we won't really know until the average EV age catches up with ICE cars.
Tesla's in particular are inordinately dependent on a single company for parts and repairs. That increases the risk of being able to easily maintain an older car in the future.
Yeah, I’ve spent about five or six times as much servicing my Honda Odyssey over the last three years as my Tesla. And, my Tesla isn’t zero-maintenance but most of the service has involve me parking my car on my driveway and waiting for the mobile tech to show up.
The Corolla is purchased by those who want an affordable sedan, as well as the affluent who don't want the unreliability of a German luxury car or a Tesla and are putting their money in other things like their home and marketable securities.
The Ford F-150 is a vehicle used widely by commercial organizations as well as American retail consumers who can afford one.
All of this leads me to think if you want to know what popular vehicle sales really are, I suspect you have to look at the used car market and normalize by model, removing years or generations to understand what the average consumer is really buying.