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Java being required means this is a complete non-starter for me.


Do you have an ideological or practical opposition? Java is cross-platform enough for it not to be an issue. Are you memory-constrained?


Mostly due to the security risk. Especially on Windows. Even being a software developer (read: not your average computer user) and taking extra precautions (like click-to-run for java use in browsers) I've still gotten hit by malware that takes advantage of security holes in the Java runtime.


I second the exact sentiment on OSX.

And running a VM with linux (or windows, java is as much a pain on either platform) is a lot of effort for running an editor.

As long as it needs java installed, I'm out...


Then disable the java plugin for all your browsers. I think you can even disable java web start.


You could use a virtual machine running Linux for more security.


How would you like them to run clojure, a JVM based language?


There is an official, up-to-date ("within a week or so of milestones on Clojure main") .NET port at https://github.com/clojure/clojure-clr

Maybe once Light Table is somewhat stable, someone can hack it to use ClojureCLR for the benefit of the security-conscious Windows users :)

I really should get involved in open source projects.


I think the issue will be compiling it for the CLR and then distributing it. The current script gets and runs a JAR, but I 'd imagine it would be relatively trivial to modify the script to run the CLR instead - but you'd have to build from the source included in the JAR (if it's all there...)

Haven't had much experience with it myself, it has been a while since I've played with Clojure.


Or simply use [IKVM](http://www.ikvm.net/).


I would think that, as a Science Fiction writer, separating yourself from current technology as a whole would allow you to be more creative in how you perceive the world(s) you are creating.


Why hasn't MSFT hired this entire team yet? They want the .Net platform to be pushed as far out as possible and Mono is a great way to do that. Plus it'll give MSFT +1 Open Source.


> Why hasn't MSFT hired this entire team yet? They want the .Net platform to be pushed as far out as possible and Mono is a great way to do that.

No, Microsoft wants to make money off of its main products - Windows, Office, Server, etc. .NET is only a means to that goal.

Microsoft has an even better way to push .NET to other platforms - port .NET, the official runtime, to other platforms. This would be easy, and would actually ensure similar behavior on all platforms (unlike the current situation). However, this would eat into revenue from Microsoft's server OS and stack. So it will not happen.

Of course there are other factors here, and Microsoft did compromise by striking a patent deal with Novell, officially sanctioning Mono. But the other elements in that deal (Linux, office software, etc.) were very important too; it isn't clear if Microsoft would have made that deal just for .NET alone.

Bottom line, Microsoft has basically nothing to gain, and something to lose, for helping Mono. Mono is already where Microsoft wants - allow some level of .NET outside of the Microsoft ecosystem, but with various performance and other limitations that make it a good idea for people invested in .NET code to purchase Microsoft's other software to run it on. Mono has been weakened, but not killed, by the layoff from Novell, which has worked in Microsoft's favor.

Microsoft is not stupid. If it were in its interest, it would have hired this team a long time ago. That it has not is evidence that it is not in its interest.


It would be hard for one company to develop a proprietary and a open source runtime.

The big company that should really look at Mono is Nokia... Mono will likely be better than Qt in providing a portable runtime for mobile applications. Qt and Mono would go great together on the Desktop too(the current bindings kind of suck). I actually don't see how Windows Phone ever takes off unless 1) They start allowing native code on their phones 2) Mono becomes extremely popular as a cross phone runtime.

Another company I wish that would take a look at mono is VMWare(who bought out Spring)...


WP7 allows native code on the phone for handset manufacturers, including Nokia. Or are you talking about app developers?


Please God never let this happen - look at IronRuby to see what happens when MSFT hires an open source team.


> look at IronRuby

There's now a working implementation of Ruby on Windows. Am i missing something?


Yes, it's dead now.


Source? A new release came out a few months ago and I don't see anything on the site saying it's dead.



They don't need to integrate them into the MSFT culture. Just put them on the payroll.


They can profit from .NET more if companies are forced to use Windows and Windows Server to run their .NET applications.


In my opinion, Mono is simply a distraction for the open source community. It takes people away from Java or Scala, for example, and has them running in the weeds with Mono.

Microsoft did a great job with C# and they've certainly moved much faster than the Java community. However, the Mono project won't get much enterprise support without a bigger company behind it, and I don't see how it's going to catch the JVM in performance without that support.

In short, if you're not writing Windows GUI apps, you might as well use Java, or give Scala as shot.


I used Mono for a couple of things that required only a linux daemon. .NET is much better at interoperating with native code, from the sourcecode point of view. It's also got a much better language (C#). It was definitely a good choice when scala was still young. Nowadays... pretty much depends on what you're used to.


Why not go outside your comfort zone and give something else a try?


My comfort zone is Python, C and Erlang. You shouldn't assume too much from a single comment.


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