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Censorship is censorship.

Is it? Would bioweapon instruction restrictions be equivalent to disallowing reporting on whether the government is massacring large numbers of citizens in your city? Both are ‘censorship’ but don’t seem remotely equivalent to me.

That’s the thing about principled positions. If you believe censorship is wrong, then it is equally wrong no matter what the topic is.

Do you believe it’s only censorship where context shouldn’t be applied? Like if someone had a principled view "violence is wrong", would non-lethal violence in a clear case of self-defense be “equally wrong” as the guy who personally killed tens of thousands of captured POWs (Blokhin)? As “violence is violence”?

>> Would bioweapon instruction restrictions be equivalent to disallowing reporting on whether the government is massacring large numbers of citizens in your city?

> If you believe censorship is wrong, then it is equally wrong no matter what the topic is.

Are you agreeing with that view, or merely saying it’s a theoretical view but you think such believers are wrong?


Someone pointed out[1] a while ago that LLMs look good at things you are bad at. Which is I think one of the best explanations of why so many people disagree about how good they are at programming. There are a lot of people really bad at programming, and they will look at the output if an LLM and say “Wow, it’s so much better than my code!”

1: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48315309


This whole "You're not using the software the way we want you to use the software" regime can't end soon enough...

I've moved over to MacPorts due to Homebrew's aggressive support phase-out schedule[1]. My daily driver iMac is now in the Tier-3 "go away" bucket. Absolutely loved Homebrew for the short period of time I could use it, but I'm not going to get on the hardware update treadmill just to keep using it.

1: https://docs.brew.sh/Support-Tiers


I think you should blame Apple rather than Homebrew for this. Apple, please support your hardware longer!

Apple doesn’t force Homebrew to model its support policy on Apple’s.

Making excuses for billion+ dollar companies' behavior is one of the most common HN comment section pastimes.

I think your comment refers to @Someone1234.

It's a very generalized observation. I sometimes think of the HN comment section as the Billionaire's Defense League.

Hardly unique to us, but mostly fair.

(Only "mostly" because if you're here at the right time of day, can also see support for actual communism).


Only second to making intellectually dishonest criticisms of perceived behaviours

I wonder who gets to decide which companies make important and critical software and which ones get the scraps later.

No need to wonder.

The answer is, the organization making the powerful tool. The people in charge of Anthropic.

Not only that, but they've also written at length about exactly what their opinions and values are: https://darioamodei.com/

You may not agree with the decisions that they make, but they're hardly mysterious. Not something to wonder about.


Amodei has no values, he's a hollow husk and he'd sell his family into sex slavery if it could make him a buck.

Nonsense. Everyone has values. "Make myself maximum money" is a value. "Amass maximum power over the world's information" is a value. It's clear Amodei certainly follows the latter, and I would soften the former somewhat for him; they did after all decline the Pentagon contract that would have made money but would have meant giving up some control of information.

Those aren't values. Maybe goals or motivations but not values in any conceivable way, shape or form. This site is full of pod people I swear.

Maybe it would help if you shared your private personal definition of "value", since you're clearly not using the one from the dictionary...

Only a Yankee would need an explanation of what values are or why only caring about making money isn't one.

What a disgusting country filled with hollow degenerates. No wonder you keep voting for a senile grifting pedophile.


Look, self-loathing is all the rage, but just because you don't understand what "values" mean doesn't mean you have to insult your entire country along with you.

As for making money, you're right, it's not one of your values. It takes a special case of main character syndrome to think it's not anyone's value.


The one they ended up going “well I guess we’ll contract with them after all”, after cleverly using their sort-of-refusal to gain a ton of goodwill and new customers?

Yes, because it changed slightly, addressing their complaint. The complaint was small in scope.

Again, just because someone has values, doesn't mean they have values you think are good.


That would be Anthropic.

Well, Anthropic thinks it should be the Trump administration [1].

This whole business just keeps getting dumber.

1: https://darioamodei.com/post/policy-on-the-ai-exponential


Read the actual essay. I cannot possibly imagine how you come to that conclusion unless you're just arguing in bad faith.

No. You read the actual essay, then explain how we're supposed to interpret this more charitably:

    Frontier AI models, like airplanes, should 
    be required to go through technical testing 
    and auditing, and their release should be 
    blocked or reversed as a threat to public 
    safety if they do not meet high standards 
    of safety. I am grateful to see the Trump 
    administration’s Executive Order move 
    incrementally towards a greater role for 
    government in AI, though Anthropic’s proposal 
    recommends even further action. 
They are all-but-literally sucking up to the administration that declared their company a supply-chain risk, arguing that the same administration should be given gatekeeping authority over all high-quality LLMs including open-weight releases. Go gaslight somebody else.

I agree with your sentiment but not your conclusion. They don't want this administration specifically to have gatekeeping authority, what they want is any administration to say that they are gatekeeping, so that they can regulate the competition out of existence. Of course the actual checks and balances will be near pointless in effect, but expensive to implement nonetheless.

Of course the actual checks and balances will be near pointless in effect

My concern is that they won't be pointless in effect. Make no mistake: if Amodei has his way, possession of unvetted model weights will be treated like possession of CSAM is today. And at the same time Amodei calls for that, others are calling for the deployment of technical measures that will make it easier to enforce such laws.

All to the sound of thunderous applause on "Hacker News."


This is a pretty reasonable statement and I'm not sure how you could interpret this as "sucking up to the admin."

No one is "grateful" for being labelled a security risk. The statement reads more like a Chinese "Ah Q" story than a real response.

(Unless they are piping the F1 Mercedes theme song in the announce system at anthropic, in which case maybe you are right)


But they aren't talking about being labeled a security risk. The scope of this paragraph is narrow and refers specifically to the executive order.

I can read it as both TBH.

First sentence by itself is mundane "regulators are good", which most people agree with, and also libertarians will object to regardless of leader.

Second sentence is obviously sucking up, though is the same level of sucking up found on every stereotypical LinkedIn post.


It's a pretty reasonable statement if you work for Anthropic and are eyeing your stock options nervously and your competitors even more so.

Everyone that isn't a bitter cynic must be a shill.

I’ve noticed that too many HN folks seem to think that cynicism makes them more intelligent. I think it must be some kind of insecurity, about not wanting to be seen as naive or something. It’s pretty sad though, I wonder how some of these people find any peace or joy in their lives.

Believing they have any interests other than theirs at heart is like believing the stripper is really in love with you. That's not cynicism, that's just common sense.

Do you feel really smart now?

It's a very common failure mode amongst the chronically online. It's a way for people to feel superior over others - really, they're just depriving themselves of joy and the idea that good things can and do exist in the world.

How do you get "Anthropic thinks it should be the Trump administration"

From that paragraph?

Even granting it is sucking up, that is not replacing.


Because that's who will make and enforce the rules. Rules that, naturally, Amodei will help write.

If you think this is OK, I'm not sure what led you to a site called "Hacker News," but fortunately there are plenty of others.


No, it is not OK. But also, not what you quoted says.

Not sure who you are arguing with really. There seems to be a few logical leaps in between each response. I also didn't say anything like that.


You asked, I answered. The direct and immediate effect of Amodei getting what he asks for in that essay will be to empower the Trump administration to approve model releases.

Well, that post certainly aged well.

You got baited by a confirmed Anthropic shill, see more info here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48270186

Confirmed by you!

I don't really agree with their point here, but there are plenty of people in the AI community whose views are aligned with Anthropic's. That doesn't make them shills.

It's actually important those views are put forward.

A place like LessWrong has the opposite problem - there is no one there who questions the "safety narrative" so the discussion swings more and more towards the extreme end of that spectrum.


Wait, did you actually claim that most work at FAANGs doesn’t require an NDA and that was evidence to support your accusation?

I hate to accuse people of shilling (and HN hates those accusations as well, policy-wise). And there are ways to defend Amodei's point, or at least there would be if he and his friends hadn't been beating the same drum since GPT2.

But I tend to agree, just saying it's a "pretty reasonable statement" and leaving it at that is beyond the pale for anyone who doesn't have an undisclosed stake in the argument.


This is like the most milquetoast stance in the AI safety community. It's great the Trump admin did something, no one expected them to, and they should have done more. Very powerful tools released to the public should be regulated for safety.

That is "pretty reasonable" to most people (except the tech-libertarian crowd).


Fine, call me a tech-libertarian. I don't think Donald Trump should be involved in regulating AI.

Even a broken clock tells the right time twice a day. This was an objectively good thing.

So, will the Chinese models agree to let the U.S. government also vet them first before release?

He hasn't thought it through that far, or thought about what it will take to enforce his "pretty reasonable statement."

Or maybe he has. I don't know. That would be worse.


It's like we've all forgotten what technical debt means. We just say the phrase, but we have forgotten that it is analogous to actual debt. Every line of code produced should be treated as a liability to the company, like a bond they issued that they have to pay interest on in the future. You only take on the liability if it produces more business value than it costs to maintain. The goal is not to issue as many bonds as you possibly can.

The fact that a single person is "in charge" of the government, with the other two branches largely deferring all power to that one person, is a recent aberration from the norm in the USA. I'm for a single-payer health system that is administered by a well-checked regulatory apparatus and institutions that are not subject to wild policy swings at the whim of a single king-like leader.

>I'm for a single-payer health system that is administered by a well-checked regulatory apparatus and institutions that are not subject to wild policy swings at the whim of a single king-like leader

And I want to win the lottery, marry a princess, and for my childhood dog to come back to life.

We all want things.

When we're advocating for government changes we need to be realistic and make good choices. Right now throwing an enormous amount of power at a dysfunctional government (public health care) is an insane bid completely disconnected from reality.

We need people to care about the basic functionality of government and for it's various pieces to do their duty. They aren't, so maybe let's shelve the idea of handing over control of our healthcare to them until they can deal with their cowardice in front of an aspirational king.


At least elected governments are in theory accountable to the public through voting. Insurance companies and healthcare providers are not in any way accountable to the public, and the public has zero power (outside of regulation) to affect their actions. Just because public [X] is currently a bad choice doesn't make private, corporate [X] always a better choice.

Who cares about theory when the reality is a corrupt insane government was elected. We're not dealing with theory. Healthcare is too important to propose major changes based on theory instead of reality.

You DO have healthcare choices now. Consider the healthcare option provided when accepting a job is on the table, provide feedback to your employer about their chosen provider (i.e. say NO to United Healthcare). Even though it involves big life choices with private healthcare there ARE options on the table instead of what the electorate chooses every 2/4/6 years.

And people are pretty misguided. The typical HN crowd person would STILL HAVE private health insurance on top of the public care in almost any country today that has the public option. The public option is bad, slow, and has a habit of denying care. You'd be rich, you'd still want better care than what was available for free.


The most shocking thing about entering Software as a career was the enormous number of "Brillant Paula Beans"[1] that are out there silently working, doing meetings, participating in all the software rituals, but producing useless and ultimately scrapped work product.

1: https://thedailywtf.com/articles/the_brillant_paula_bean


Maybe "mission-chauffeured." Revenue/business model is in the driver's seat and the mission just comes along for the ride and adapts to wherever the car is going.

An entrepreneur I used to admire a great deal was once described to me this way: "So and so doesn't do what's right. He makes whatever he does right." Ever since I heard that phrase, I haven't been able to unsee it in so many founders who I think sincerely want to do the right thing, but their ego gets in the way.

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